Thursday, March 2, 2017
March 2017 Open Comments
Brothers and sisters, we can do better. There was a lot of frustration and anger seen in the posts in February Open Comments, much of it directed against our fellow officers. During these difficult and frustrating times, we need to come together and unite for our common cause. Don't forget, this blog is visible to all. Let's show those who are watching that we are in fact united and we have each others backs.
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PAY COMPS: OLD/NEW:
POLICE OFC 2 min $40,185/$41,614..... MCP $ 49,067/$52,018..... Max $63,148/$66,583
HR DIRECTOR min $79,664/$117,283..... MCP $97,115/$129,011..... Max $129,646/$175,925
PUB SAFETY DIR min $101,587/$146,372..... MCP $123,926/$161,009..... Max $165,651/$219,557
PO2 MCP + 6%
HR DIR MCP + 32%
PUB SAF DIR MCP + 30%
IF WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE TROUBLE OF WRITING A PAY STUDY, LETS MAKE IT WORTH OUR WHILE
Priorities. There it is in black and white.
To switch gears from the pay study briefly.... has anyone heard anything recently in regards to a primary weapon change? Is there any plan to move to 9mm? Maybe a Glock 34 like Marietta?
After reviewing Wednesday's remarks from Chairman Boyce, Commissioner Ott, and Mr. Hagler, this is my take: Chairman Boyce's intentions were good, but now he admits he didn't really understand how things work, and realizes there in a finite amount of money. What he clearly understands is that he promised Cobb County voters he wouldn't raise taxes until 2019, and he has to keep that promise before any he made to public safety. "No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems -- of which getting elected and re-elected are No. 1 and No. 2. Whatever is No. 3 is far behind". Thomas Sewell, Economist
Commissioner Ott's comments seem sincere. I like the military time and grade concept, but will that require an entire new pay study?
The pay study was postponed to ensure it wasn't Dekalb's? Duh. They got burned for a bunch of money for a cut and paste, and had to be sure. At least it was delayed, and a review allowed more delay. Certainly the delay had nothing to do with implementing it after this year's "merit" increases, so the county continued to save by kicking the can down the road another year.
Questioned about the insurance policies of other local agencies, Mr. Hagler said he doesn't know what other governments provide. Wow. Wages are only one component of the total package, so it would seem reasonable that the top guy would know a little about the competition (for good employees). Was Mr. Hagler truly oblivious about the shift differential issues? I seem to recall being told Kronos couldn't handle adjusting shift differential, but now he says we can look into it. I bet he understands the benefits of delaying a vote on the pay study. If Chairman Boyce and the board are truly concerned about addressing our issues, they need to get Mr. Hagler on board. (The 32% MCP raise should help his enthusiasm. Can I assume he wasn't asked about that finding?)
If you are reading this and considering whether to stay, try another department, or try another career path, Chairman Boyce said it best; he asks you to stay, but in the end do what is best for you and your family.
Is anyone really surprised with the outcome of the FOP Meeting? It's the same old thing just different players. Until this county gets rid of Hankerson and Hagler nothing will change. Unbelievable that Hagler keeps his position with being so unknowledgeable on the issues. Good ole boy system still alive and well. I doubt we will see that change in the future. Hankerson will get a new contract in a year and we will still be getting screwed. So far I'm not impressed with the "saviour of the police" Chairman Boyce. He did a lot of talking but there's been little action so far. Hopefully he will prove me wrong in the future but I doubt it. All politicians are the same at the end of the day.
Probably not. Add it to the long list of beneficial and inexpensive improvements the county is NOT making.
I was "that guy" who would defend the county for the last 6-7 years and believed good things are coming.
Every time a coworker would bring up a deficiency or what needed improved:
Cheaper Health Insurance.
From no take-home cars to there's no more money for take-home cars.
To only getting a Merit Raise when our benefit contributions were going up.
To our 401/Hybrid retirement plan.
And I would counter with the positive things offered:
The automatic raise from PO I to PO II.
The shift differential.
The Education Incentive Pay.
The fact we even got the raises, and when we started we knew we weren't going to get rich from being a cop.
The Employee Clinic.
And if all else failed, my response was basically leave and go somewhere else.
I can't say it was one thing that has sense changed my opinion.
I was married when I started and now I'm married with children on a single income because my spouse can no longer work at this time.
I've had the opportunity to take some classes and talk to officers from other departments from other states and officers from other departments in the metro area.
I enjoy my take-home and feel bad for those that still don't have one. Because there's no reason Cobb County can't continue to honor the take-home car program.
I have an above average education, so I appreciate the Education Incentive and I appreciate the Shift Diff.
When I started I wasn't worried about my retirement and figured it's Cobb County, so it's going to be good. How wrong I was, 30 years for 30%, and o/t doesn't count?
And I value what officers with more time are saying. I now see the ignorance from a two to three year officer to a six to seven year officer.
Since off FTO, those officers with more time than me had my back and been a great source of information when I wasn't sure how to do something. So in hind-sight why wouldn't I value they're opinion on they're logical opinion on the future of Cobb County and my future with Cobb County?
Most of them have walked where I'm walking both with family and professionally.
The longer you're on, you find out that the positive things I would respond with are standard benefits only at departments that are worth working for.
I never thought of going to the Fed's, started looking, but want to stay in Georgia.
Doing my homework now and if it continues to look like every department has some kind of 401 retirement I will apply with GSP. Hopefully in the next three to six months Cobb County can give us a definite answer on what they're going to do.
And if not, by then we'll know if GSP got they're additional 20% raise. If so, for six months I'll take the pay cut, make $55,000.00 after finishing the academy and almost make more than I make with part-times.
If I can't get a GSP Post closest to the house, that's okay with me, like the second February 23rd post said, there's like 11 GSP Posts in the metro area plus I can go 10-8 and 10-35 from my driveway.
I'm not mad at Cobb County. I'm disappointed, because we know and they've proved it in the past, they've got the money now. All Cobb County needs to do is put their money where their mouth is and make Public Safety a Priority.
My decision is nothing personal, I've just got to do what's right for my family, will allow me more time with my family, and work for a department that values me professionally.
And for those that don't have a family or still ignorant, $74,000.00 a year for a police officer doesn't make you "rich". And we don't live outside of our means. More of the opposite.
I want to work to live, Not live to work.
To those in the process with other agencies and those I've talked to about moving on, I get it now.
To those that still think like I used to, I sincerely hope Cobb County makes good on they're word this time, but I'm going off of recent history and I'm not waiting for "It's going to take time" any longer.
-Be Safe
I've been comparing the pros and cons for GSP....and I see no cons other than being gone for 6 months and a more physical academy. BIG WHOOP.
Chairman Boyce, give us the pay raise now or the exodus will be worse than before. I don't care about more funtional uniforms, window tint, or Chargers (no matter how awesome that would be), I'll even wear the damn hat EVERY SECOND I'm out of the car. Just give us the raise we deserve for the work that is put in!!! It's a FACT that we do MUCH more work than GSP or any of the North Fulton suburban cities that get paid more than us.
There is no reason for me to stay as I am on the new retirement plan. I can go to GSP and get paid 15-20% more within 9 months, or I could go to a northern suburb and get that same raise, along with a pension, and full-paid health benefits by the employer. What reason is there to stay around? I literally can't think of any. Yeah, it could be MUCH worse as we see with south Georgia, but there's no reason for us wanting what we deserve. Just becasue there is worse doesn't mean what we have is great. If you want the finest officers, low turnover, high morale, and great results from your officers, YOU HAVE TO PAY UP!!! This place will be DeKalb County in no time if nothing is changed.
Hell, why not move up north and retire after 20 years with a full pension?
CHIEF COX,
1st, What is the plan for the new cars being ordered? Is there anything different you'd like to share about the cars we're getting or how they're being outfitted? Is anything different? What is the time estimate for them being given to the precincts to be assigned out? About half of my shift (not including me) still do not have cars.
2nd, Any indication on renovations for the precincts? We're getting new libraries but can barely get someone to fix the heat when it goes out.
3rd, Is there any word on the IACP study? I am very curious and am looking forward to their report. I'm actually optimistic about what they will say.
I'm sure I'll think of more later.
Also, for our savior Boyce, SEND HANKERSON AND HAGLER TO THEIR RESPECTIVE RETIREMENT HOMES
Do y’all not see the above POST … Are the rank and file of the Cobb County Police Dept not appalled? The fact is, we have been battling for several years to stave off the mass exodus of officers and to recruit quality men and women and pay is the issue. Yet upper management found the need to raise their pay 30,000 and 45,000 a year !!! WTF !!
The Cobb County Police Department has lost 350 officers in the last 5 years AND will continue to lose officers. The BOC cared more about their ego’s than they did Public Safety 3 years ago, and brought the F-ing Braves to Cumberland. They gave us 40 more officers on paper to cover it but we can’t fill them. NOW we’re 3 weeks away from the exhibition game with the NY Yankees and we’re under staffed. IACP report is going to tell us were severely under staffed. In fact, we should have NO LESS than 1000 officers, yet we barely have 600.
Motivating employees to work at their full potential is the main premise of successful management.
Hagler is out of his depth in a parking lot puddle and Heaton as delusions of adequacy.
The TRUTH is… Cobb County Public Safety has FAILED to do their JOB. Yet they raise the salaries. Both Heaton and Hagler should resign. If it’s not their fault the Police Department is in the position it’s in, then who’s fault is it ?
Cobb County furloughed officers, let several years go by without a pay raises or a cost of living adjustment because of the economy. And when things started to turn around the County went after the Braves. The County got 2 SPOST votes that paid for a lot of items and freed up millions and millions of dollars. All under the same managers… The BOC only changed the Chairman seat to Boyce, so 4 county commissioners, Hankerson, Heaton and Hagler, have miss managed this county. Now the best they got are excuses.
In this social media generation you log onto Facebook and see GSP's recruitment actively out there. Imagine when it is a 40% raise over this last year? How is our I.A and recruitment supposed to get/keep people? I am/will be here for awhile so regardless of what you guys decide to do... it makes more sense for someone to give here... and by the looks of it, a lot of fed up officers are about to give up. Why wouldnt they? a GSP FTO recruit is about to make more than a 4 year CCPD officer. You guys always train and preach "Officer Safety" this and that, well every shift having multiple beats open due to lack of manpower is kind of the opposite of that.
Dolan made over 50k off of that hugs and kisses training. let that sink in.
lets not forget that our crest on the patch means "we lead, others follow" is that still true?
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana (1905)
So based on how the FOP meeting went with Mr. Boyce, Mr. Hagler, and Mr. Ott, I suspect we'll loose another 200 police officers between 2017 through 2020 considering this time it's happening in a healthy economy (i.e. more jobs) and amount of openings GSP has to fill.
But now this time we've got the Atlanta Braves in Cobb County.
#NoBallsAndAllStrikes
WSBTV Atlanta
DeKalb Public Safety Officials Seek Raise From County
Updated: Mar 7, 2017 - 11:11 PM
Tuesday’s DeKalb County Public Safety Committee meeting is not the first meeting off-duty DeKalb County officers have attended to push for raises.
“And they will be here again on their off-time until we do what's right,” said DeKalb County Commissioner Mereda Johnson.
Public safety officials in uniforms and concerned residents packed into a small meeting room Tuesday afternoon, as the DeKalb County Board of Commissioners considered a proposed 10 percent raise this year for all public safety employees.
That includes firefighters, police, deputies, marshals, 911 operators and parole and probation employees. The commission also discussed a proposed 5 percent increase in both 2018 and 2019.
But DeKalb County Police Chief James Conroy said the money won’t go as far as you’d think, with an increased workload and more expensive pension and benefits payments.
"You work harder and your pension and benefits increase. That creates a sense of panic,” said Conroy.
"They're paying out $200, $300 a pay period in insurance alone. That is enormously high,” said DeKalb County Public Safety Director Cedric Alexander.
Cobb lost another officer today to Lawrenceville .
I wonder, since DeKalb County was one of [many] reasons DeCobb County got take-home cars, will this help the DeCobb County BOC to move forward with raises for Public Safety sooner?
Or will DeCobb County continue to follow Atlanta and DeKalb with upcoming raises? What do you think DeCobb County BOC will do?
Lead or Follow?
Based on my list of officers in the process of leaving Cobb County, that's one gone and eight more leaving soon.
And No, none of the eight (on my list) in the process of leaving are going to GSP.
It's beginning to look a lot like 2011. So that's 9+12(GSP)=21. To put it in perspective, that's a shift at a precinct or an academy class. And no, I didn't forget specialized units because we don't have any specialized units that size any more.
I wonder if we'll lose 42 officers in 2017?
How much longer will the fiscally minded Cobb County BOC continue to get away with wasting the Citizens of Cobb County's money?
Let's see 9×$80,000=$720,000.00. That's $720k that could've gone to continuing to buy the rest of the take-home cars that the SPLOST was supposed to cover for EVERY officer to have a take-home car.
But it's already March and there's no way we could lose another 33 officers in nine more months, right?
Boyce has a lot of "committee's" but so far it appears to be a waste of time. I have not seen him do anything new for the first 3 months of his term. He has passed several things that Lee had already done. Meanwhile, we have a revolving door at the department and the BOC are sitting on their hands again. Hopefully Boyce will come back to the FOP meeting and this time stay longer and actually answer the questions. We are still doing more with less.
Someone shed some light, because I can't figure this out. Why the world would someone want to voluntarily work "on duty" at the park? Is it really that appealing to suit up on your off day and go stand out in the rain or 100 deg heat helping drunks cross the road? And at your regular hourly rate? All in the hope of getting a little bit of OT? Especially when there are $40+ per hour part times going unfilled, it makes no sense. Maybe someone can explain?
It seems to me that we have a lot more influence over what goes on around here than we realize if they expect us to volunteer for this mess. I wonder how quickly the county would start listening if all the sudden nobody was volunteering for part times anymore?
I understand there were a select few that were offered assessment practice training at the training center last week, put on by upper Command that are actually involved in the promotional process. Some of us that are in the process were not offered that same opportunity. I would love to hear from the Chief about this and depending on his response,I will determine my legal recourse.
Funny, I had a similar conversation with a couple officers.
And I can't help but think what would "change over night" if most would chose to work other part time jobs?
Can't wait to see a response on this. If you know any of the so called "select few" it will be interesting to see what order they get promoted in.
Well if you've been here long enough to be under the "old retirement Rule of 80" and you are in the window of your final 10 years that overtime goes towards your retirement or forever money. Chances are people in that boat will make more than 40 dollars an hour with overtime so some would benefit that way. As far as influence on what goes on around here we have zero. They County will always do what they want.
County is only on the hook for 14 million more dollars to the Braves that "has always been there on paper". That would probably pay for the rest of the take home cars we still don't have. Wonder if 3 plus year old Archer Study will be implemented or not doesn't affect most anyway. Maybe no more merit raises for 5 or more years or furloughs again. Tim Lee is laughing all the way to the bank......
Our promotional process is a total joke. Secret votes and back room deals. I've given up with the whole crooked system! We need more transparency! It's amazing how some of their chosen ones have let them down. Hey buddy!
The only way it can be fixed is by a lawsuit....the promotional process is in need of a total revamp!
Are you suggesting that some people were given the assessment center scenarios ahead of time? That's a very serious allegation that could be damaging to our department's reputation and some careers, so I hope it's not being thrown out there based on just locker room "facts," aka cop gossip. I know that all of us who took the Sgt's test were given the general subject matter of the assessment center phases in writing. We obviously weren't given the specific scenarios, and anyone who was given specifics before the assessment center would have certainly been advantaged.
I know of several instances of folks being coached up on assessment centers by people who outranked them. That's totally c4 as long as inside knowledge of the actual scenarios wasn't shared.
Please offer real facts if you have them. If, on the other hand, this is just a republication of something that somebody heard from somebody else without any evidence to back it up, it's reckless.
I think what this person is saying is that if your going to give "extra" help to people being promoted than it needs to be extended to everyone and not just a few people. If only a few get the extra training then yes there is a perception of impropriety.
No one is saying that they got the answers or scenarios that were actually given at the assessment center. The problem was that only a select chosen few got to take part in the assessment practice given at the training center by high ranking command staff personnel who are directly involved in the inner workings of the test and assessment center. I was hoping that Interim Chief Cox would provide some clarity on this issue but he has remained silent which speaks volumes. The promotional process is flawed and improper when conducted in secret like it was done. It screams of impropriety. Guess we will see what becomes of this soon.
On 03/22/17 Georgia law makers approved the $49 Billion Dollar upcoming budget starting 07/01/17.
The plan also continues previously announced 20 percent raises for state law enforcement, including those with the Georgia State Patrol and Bureau of Investigation.
Just thought everybody should know. Congrats GSP.
See link below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsbtv.relaymedia.com/amp/news/georgia/georgia-lawmakers-ok-49-billion-budget-with-teacher-raises/504976691
I also wonder if anyone else will check out this link like I did?
http://dps.georgia.gov/job-vacancy-announcement-georgia-state-patrol-102nd-trooper-school
So based on the link, currently the Annual Salary Minimums are:
$36,110 (while in Trooper School)
$46,422 (upon TrooperSchool Graduation)
$51,552-Trooper First Class 1
$56,707-Trooper First Class 2
$61,825-Trooper First Class 3
And come 07/01/17 GSP/GBI gets an additional 20%?
So by my math, that's now:
$43,000 in the academy
$55,000 after graduating the academy
$62,000 for Trooper 1st Class
$67,000 for Trooper 2nd Class and about
$74,000 for Trooper 3rd Class.
Even if my numbers are off a grand, that's still great money. I wonder how many others will look at the same link?
As I patrol the County I receive plenty of thank yous and adulation from the people of Cobb and it is appreciated. If all you care about is being the highest paid Officer in the State you should leave and allow the rest of us to serve the people of this County in good faith and with integrity.
You are missing the point. Yeah you get thank you's from the citizens. But those dont pay the bills. Your cost of living has increased exponentially over the past several years along with healthcare costs and retirement contributions while the county coffers get fatter because they are passing the cost of doing business to the employee. If you are happy with what you do and how much the county compensates you to do it for then you are the exception to the rule. How about staying off the site if you don't have anything constructive to say?
Well said "missing the point". It's appreciated, but it doesn't pay the bills once you have a family.
So, to Officer "Adulation", pay attention to the obvious veteran officers giving you good advice on the posts.
I recommend you read the earlier posts from this month and maybe read the history of what happened in 2009-12 before you started here. And what inspired this great site.
To the new guy who posted at 7:20 PM,
I hope your "good faith" helps feed you when you have a spouse and your 2.2 kids while working and feeds you while you're retired and reaping the "benefit" of your 401K Hybrid.
And since when did wanting to make a reasonable salary and be compensated fairly become an Integrity issue.
Ignorance is truly bliss.
To the "officer" that posted at 1920 hrs,
Why do you disagree with your State Legislatures giving state law enforcement a 40% raise in a 2 year period?
The 7:20 PM post smells like a troll, not a PO II. Nice try.
Looked what "happened over night".
To the Cobb BOC,
On 03.22.17 the State of Georgia legislatures approved an additional 20% raise for their state law enforcement officers for a total of 40%, in two years, back to back.
For those that don't think GSP's raise effects Cobb? Consider this, 12 of the 51 posts service 12 of the closest counties in the metro area at a micro perspective. And that's approximately 25% of all patrol posts.
Also when you consider that 7 of the 12 special ops posts service the same metro counties, you're now at approximately 30% of all GSP posts service Bartow, Cherokee, Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, Douglas, Fayette, Forsyth, Fulton, Gwinnett, Henry, and Paulding.
Now consider that most Troopers don't want to work the metro area (as mentioned on earlier posts), now at a conservative number someone has a 30-50% chance of getting one of the 12 GSP posts.
Not to mention, GSP will put new Troopers right out of the academy in a special ops unit (i.e. Motors). Special Ops includes GSP's version of Motors, STEP, SWAT, and Task Force.
Integrity = the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
"he is known to be a man of integrity"
synonyms: honesty, probity, rectitude, honor, good character, principle(s), ethics, morals, righteousness, morality, virtue, decency, fairness, scrupulousness, sincerity, truthfulness, trustworthiness
"I never doubted his integrity"... Now if you are saying that my or your fellow officers wanting to be compensated for a standard of work that has been proven to be higher than other departments that pay more, correlates to not having "integrity", I say that is B.S. We have many Officers with great Integrity and Moral values, but as stated above, that does not put food on the table. Nor will it keep you North of the poverty pay scale after putting your life on the line for 25 + years. Although it is much appreciated to get to hand shake or pat on the back, that doesn't get the bills paid nor will those people be there to pay them for you. If a trooper can be paid 55,000 after 2 years of work to work accidents and write tickets, (primary job) than YES we should get more.
Hey "As I Patrol", you and "That Guy" from last month are totally clueless. Why did the NY Yankee's pay the highest salaries, IBM, Simi Valley and now GSP? Rhetorical of course. To draw the best and brightest. To get the highest quality applicants to choose from. Some of the best and brightest were drawn to Cobb County 15 to 20 years ago because Cobb paid the highest with the best benefits.
Now, we are well under paid with 15 to 20 years of experience and much more valuable. Cobb government has ignored the PD for far too long and now their “chickens have come home to roost”. You can already see here in Cobb County what happens to a Police Dept. when it doesn’t pay for the best and brightest, i.e. Chief Cox’s email about discipline. So why don’t you and “that guy” sit down and take a big sip from the cup of STFU !!!
G.S.P. Job description; Duties for Georgia State Patrol troopers include traffic law enforcement, assisting motorists, participating in criminal prosecutions, and providing security services for elected officials. Other duties involve securing crash sites and evidence, participating in criminal investigations, and generally ensuring the safety of citizens. Georgia State Patrol recruitment places an emphasis on supervisory evaluation and internal promotion, so entry-level troopers are given professional guidance on how to discharge their duties as efficiently and effectively as possible. Officers who perform well may qualify for transfer or promotion to specialized units such as the Specialized Weapons and Tactics Unit, the Criminal Interdiction Unit, and the Governor’s Task Force/Drug Suppression Unit.
Now compare this to ours... Come on Cobb
I keep hearing rumors about Cobb's Chief hiring process. I would love for Mike Register to be our Chief. I believe he would fight for every officer on our department. The work he has put in over at Clayton County speak volumes. He is personable and he is fair. For all of those that remember him already know this about him. Everyone I spoke to about him say the same. I hear that he does ride along with his officers and they love him for it. He attacks media issues head on and the media story is stopped in its tracks. He's a real leader that doesn't hold grudges. For those of us that have been chewed out by him for one reason or another, remember what he would say afterwards. "Let's go get something to eat." I remember times when I would say "heck no I'm not going" and during the 5M he would always apologize. He would let you know he appreciate you and tomorrow is a new day. That's what real men/leaders do. I would love to hear what you guys think of Mike Register becoming our next Chief. We need change here in Cobb and I know he would change our department for the best.
I agree. I think he's been gone for over 10 years and has been working at the Pentagon. I had a class with some of his officers and they love him. I also checked out their facebook in Clayton and saw that they are doing a lot with the community. I looked at his profile and he is a veteran and spent a lot of time in Special Forces. Its also a lot of stuff on him in Clayton if you google him. Never worked for him, but have always heard about him. I just saw him on the news talking about counter-ambush training for his officers. Cobb would never do that. Also saw him on the news a few months back defending an officer on some type of charge. Chief Houser was a good guy but he would never do that either.
You were hoping that the interim Chief cox would provide some clarity? I got a news flash for ya, he doesn't care. And yes, the silence does speak volumes, is deafening my friend. You want to know what is going to become of this? Nothing that's what... These current times remind me of the tainted corrupt ivory palace days of the almighty dictator George Hatfield and Mickey " I got a silver star" Lloyd. Do as we say and not as we do....
Think what you want and yes he was silent but Chief Houser was a great chief and is missed.
With the current "administration" it seems like we are reverting to the old days of the Hatfield dictatorship. Not to mention the current regime appears to be whoring us out to appeal to the Braves which by the way treat and talk to us like shit!
But whatever it takes, isn't that right interim Chief Cox?
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